Monday, December 22, 2008

Law 8 MAKE OTHER PEOPLE COME TO YOU- USE BAIT IF NECESSARY

Making other people come to you seems like a pretty obvious tactic for those who desire or have power but knowing this fact is far from actually being able to implement it, let alone master, it. The essence of this tactic is twofold: one, is it is simply a way of being implementing another tactic that is having control. By making people come to you you force them to abandon their plans and conform to your own mind's concotions, uknowing of what comes next. Knowledge is power, as they say. The great Napoleon Bonaparte's minister, Talleyrand expertly put shows this effect of making people come into your own territory.

Talleyrand made Napoleon come to him by baiting him with he sweet temptations of mass support and appeal in his homeland through Napoleon's many visitors in Elba. By convincing others of his motives, he succesfully got Napoleon back to France unscathed and without challenge. But after Napoleon had regained power, he quickly lost it due to a scarcity of resources. Talleyrand was very aware of the circumstances when he laid his trap. By controling all the variables in your territory and drawing your unsuspecting prey into your turf, control is maximized.

The second thing that this tactic tries to accomlish is that it hopes to drain the ones being drawn out of their energy thus denying them their full potentials and capabilities. This is quite obvious and simple but is devilishly put into use by the Japanese in their war against the Russians in 1905.

The Japanese had a vastly inferior navy to Russia but by baiting them with false rumors that exxagerated their inferiority, they lured the Russians to attack. Because the shortest possible way to Japan was British territory, the only way they had left was by passing the Cape of Good Hope. By again, spreading false rumor that the Japanese were sailing to launch a counter-attack, the already tired seamen on their way were hit by another blow of stress and anxiety thus making them unfit for battle when they reached Japan, making theirs and easy victory.
A counter to this tactic is its obverse, striking quickly and aggressively. This forces the agressee to be in a state of panic and forces them to respond to your moves thus serving the same purpose. This can be taken that the rule is not absolute but rather its purpose is what it hopes to attain, which is attainable through other methods. This brings us to another saying, does the end, sometimes, not justify the means?

Diego Elpidio Juan Canlas IbaƱez
Hi-18 K

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

can someone please explain to me the Talleyrand bit in the post? my french history is a bit murky but I thought that during the time Bonaparte was excommunicated, Talleyrand was already working against him. didn't Talley want Louis XVIII back in power? So why would Talley lay that trap?

anyway, i think that the ends don't justify the means especially when the how will get you into trouble later on, even if your goal was a good thing. Whatever immoral or illegal acts you will commit will only overshadow your achievement and allow others to question the legitimacy of the ends.

monica ang, L

Anonymous said...

just be ready for what your bait gives you. It's like fishing. When you put bait for a big fish then he bites and fights for the bait, will you struggle or will you let go? and once you got the fish, it may start wobbling around and cause a stir in your small boat. Just saying that in this law, always be prepared with who or what you try to bait. It may even you being the bait.

Raf Sobrepena Hi-K

Anonymous said...

i thought the key to this law was deception and its relationship with illusion. it's always about manipulation, making someone do something 1) they don't want to do 2) not beneficial to them 3) beneficial to the manipulator 4) potentially harmful to those manipulated.

i think that although illusion and deception both demand a certain amount of ambition and the ability to become selfish enough to trick people, it's necessary if we want power.

i was reminded of something from Twilight. i'm no fan but that vampire character said that he's dangerous because everything about him drew (what'shername?) to him and that principle is essential to this law. the law drives home how dangerous our desires are -- how rooted in weakness and vulnerability Desire is. and we cannot be divorced from our desire which makes everyone potentially weak. no one is safe from anyone.

but the very act of deceiving someone to get what we want -- to get power -- is that moral? does the question of morality come into play at all or is the power struggle isolated -- a complete other realm separate from morality?

kyra ballesteros hi18 K

Say said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Say said...

it's interesting that the "ends justifying the means" bit came out, actually most, if not all, laws have despicable means, if not say through using people then the actual law itself is conniving...

it's actually a smart law: make them come to your turf where you have knowledge of everything whereas they know nothing... sugarcoating such sweet poison >:)

Jame Say
Hi18K

Anonymous said...

@ monica ang

Talleyrand wasn't satisfied with his exile because it was near so, as you said, was working against napoleon to get him exiled farther.

I didnt mean "the end justifies the means" absolutely as i put a conditional :P. That's precisely my point since most people have altogether disagreed with the common saying but i say that sometimes it DOES apply.

@ raf sobrepena

The law isnt just about simply making people come to you, it is about making them follow your rules. Yes, there is always a danger that you might bite of more than you chew but the point of the law is that by making them come to you, you put them at a disadvantage. Would you rather wrestle the fish in the water or handle it comfortably in your boat with all your prepared stuff?

@ kyra ballesteros

You brought up the question of morality and how it relates to this law. Well, to agree with the post by JAME SAY, i think that that question can be applied to ALL the laws since they all have to do with some sort of not-so-noble act which ultimately gives you power. This again brings us to the "end-justifies-the-means" argument which most of us simply do not condone. To answer your question, I do not think that morality was taken into consideration when the author came up with these laws. I think that that may be a intentional thing... that he left us these absurdly despicable and self-serving how-tos in order to make us reflect on how we attain our own goals, not just power.

Diego Ibanez Hi-k

Unknown said...

I believe that the end never justifies the means. One should achieve a goal through just means because the result is life giving and bears good fruit.

Sustainable development is also important. If it's through unjust means, you might get what you want but it won't last. One should also have the purest motives.

Gia Fortun
Hi18 - K

Anonymous said...

@Diego :

a very good point :)

Anonymous said...

I think that a lot of rulers didn't have the purest motives. I mean, they may rule well, but maybe they wanted to win over the people. Or maybe what would benefit the people would benefit them. That's not a pure motive, but then, hey, it works, right?

As for the law in general, it reminds me of an episode in Ghost Fighters/Yu Yu Hakusho (anime. Sorry if people can't relate ^^'). There was an episode when the main characters went into the territory of some of their enemies and there, they faced lots of difficult challenges because their enemies purposefully manipulated their area to their benefit. (The main characters had to "pass" different rooms to gain access to the next room. Each room had special properties: In one really hot room, if you said the word "hot" or something of the like, you lost your soul. In another room, you couldn't speak a letter of the alphabet as each minute passes *After the first minute, you're forbidden to say anything with the letter 'a'; after the second, you're forbidden to say anything with the letters 'a' and 'b' and so on.* If you said something, uh, something bad would happen to you.

The point of the story is that it's definitely easier for the enemy to manipulate their "home court" to their advantage. Of course, just because they are at an advantage isn't assurance that they'll win, but they have better chances, and with power, a huge advantage is very, well, advantageous.

Theresa Rosario Tan
hi18k

Anonymous said...

i would just like to clarify, is this law more about deceiving other people to get them to do the things you like, or is it more about forcing them to do so? or is it a combination of both?

getting other people to do the things you desire and making them believe in your beliefs can indeed make one powerful. with this law, i think it is important to consider the nature of the leader and the people involved. the leader must be strong and determined to get the job done. he must really be able to manage his people well and see to it that he remains in control. as for the people, the leader must make sure that he lures people he can handle. if the leader is able to recruit a lot of followers, but realizes that they are to many etc., then he might have a hard time.

i think that one's means for achieving his end must be right and just as much as possible. it is important to lead a good and decent life so as to promote peace and harmony in this world.

-Philip Albert T. Verde
Hi18 K

Anonymous said...

I think this law is about getting followers. And not blind followers, kind of like those in mobs who just follow because everyone else is doing it. But followers who want what you want, believe in what you believe. It may or may not be deception. I think it's more like debating. Packaging things in a way that you don't want to say no to. ... That's really difficult.

Ocampo 18-K

Anonymous said...

This strategy becomes advantageous, only when you are highly knowledgeable of the opponent. I don't think that giving a hint of vulnerability,when you are most likely to be vulnerable, helps anyone. If the strategists party knows well of the opponents group, there is no need for the "end-justifies-the-means" thing, the party is certain who'll win. I think this law goes well with the saying- "BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, BE SURE FIRST."

Cristal Rodriguez
Hi18-L

Anonymous said...

This law could be extremely confusing due to its title. Before reading the blog I was thinking to myself what was the law about. Making people come to you to seek advice help or making people come to you in order for you to attack them?

After reading the blog, I would have to agree with the insights of the author. An individual who practices this law shows strength and power. It shows how an individual achieves goals without exhausting much effort. By making other people go to you instead of you going to them shows society that you are in control.

With this in mind I think that if one has the ability to lure people towards them, it should be executed with the proper motives and for the greater good.

Hi- L Richard Hahn

Anonymous said...

@ Diego, I like the example you gave because I believe that simply "baiting" someone is not necessarily a good idea. Once you trap someone and deceive them, they could just as easily become angry and seek revenge. The fact that Talleyrand was one step ahead of Napoleon and figured out what he was going to do once he regained power showed a certain maturity and leadership qualities as well.

@Philip, when you said "getting other people to do the things you desire and making them believe in your beliefs can indeed make one powerful." it reminded me of Charles Manson and the horrific way the Manson women seemed to just flock to him and follow his every wish. Also, even when confronted with authority and the threat of persecution, the Manson women never faltered in their beliefs and immense worship for Charles Manson.

Although Charles Manson is a sadistic murderer, the power he exercised over those women and the rest of the members of The Family was incredible. The only "bait" he really used was the feeling of belonging to a cohesive and safe "family" unit. It still amazes me until now and makes me wonder what kind of life a person must be going through to be able to succumb completely to the wishes of one man.


Regina Yulo
Hi 18 L

Anonymous said...

As someone else pointed out, this law would only work if you know the enemy you plan to use this law on well enough. Otherwise, it would be hard or even impossible to read the person and predict correctly that he will fall for it and come to you.

I love how, when executed the right way, this law is almost certain to work. It just makes sense. If people do things out of their own accord, they can blame no one but themselves and they do it because it makes sense or feels right to them. When people have a reason or motivation to do something for themselves or for anyone, it makes it that much easier for those who use this law. That absence of resentment and that willingness to come to you freely can make all the difference (winning someone over, making allies of enemies, getting what you want/need, etc.).

kristina tan hi18 k

Anonymous said...

I think this actually applies to everyday life. It's funny how some people use a BAIT to make people do what they want. In guy terms, the girl's being sneaky: winching about how she hates taking the public transportation and how scary it is.. and well yeah, she gets the guys she like to drive for her. SNEAKY.. Manipulative.

It's absurd but it works.

Santos
Hi18 K

chiocebrero said...

I agree with Ocampo's comment above. I think this law is about getting followers. "Using bait" doesn't necessarily have to have a negative connotation. Influence and good intentions can be used as bait too, and if you're talking about people here, the only way you can get followers is to make them believe that they can gain something from following you.

Jesus, for example, got his disciples through wisdom and miracles. Gandhi got followers through inspiration.

By having followers, you do gain strength, but I think the ultimate goal of this law is to gain prominence and influence above all else.

Chio Cebrero
Hi 18 L

Gliza Marasigan said...

One of the most common forms of bait is probably blackmail -- and it works. It makes people follow you, forcedly. Imagine you're in need of something and you feel like bossing people around. Images have been circulating inside your mind, about last night at that party wherein there was a drunk girl with a few guys, grinding on the dance floor. *Let's not get into details, shall we?* You take a picture of the wild and sexy party. Alas, you have found the secret ingredient that could make them follow you without saying a word. You have the proof and those people are held by their necks. Now, celebrate. You have won!

Gliza Marasigan
Hi18-L

Unknown said...

Having the leverage to bait your opponent truly is a sign of power. If you think about it, it really expresses a great deal of controlling the environment to make it seem like what you want it to - all for the sake of tricking the other guy. As an offshoot from what Gliza said, I think blackmail serves as a great example. Having that particular piece of incriminating information suggests that you have the means, the power to influence or make use of the immediate surroundings.

Joey Palma
Hi18-K

Anonymous said...

this law is a combination of several others; you have to attract people, pretend to have something they need, infuriate them, tire them out, draw them into territory YOU are familiar with (hopefully they're not), etc, etc. I like that Raf pointed out how this can go wrong. I hope someone at war would never be dumb enough to draw the enemy close without being prepared to kill them.
I honestly don't really get the last paragraph, but as for whether the end justifies the means, this is the 48 Laws of POWER we're talking about. It's a book about winning wars, gaining dominance and manipulating people to keep your own ass safe and up high. Morality is a whole other book.
Du, L

Anonymous said...

the use of baits have been in the system for a long time already. It's a classic strategy, which i must say, actually works. we can see this in tv shows, movies, and even in the real life. i believe its success lies in the fact that those who use it actually know who they are dealing with. they know what makes them tick, what makes them shake, and they play with it so that their targets will bite. It's a powerful strategy.
With regards to the morality issues that has surfaced, i personally believe that one should acquire what she or he wants in the most upright manner. but if its power you are seeking for, most often than not, you have to be ready to defy your moral standards. Power is complicated, acquiring it is even more.

kriska Rivadillo
Hi18 K

Anonymous said...

To answer Kyra's question:
I think that it depends upon the person to use deception catch his bait or not. But I guess deceiving someone is highly effective to catch bait. Think about the fishing gear humans have invented, some of the bait look like real fishies and worms and other yummy looking stuff. (for fishes that is, haha) Just to make a living, they even had to deceive the yummy fishies. :) haha

I agree with Jame that this law is indeed smart.
It's more like a trap , a set-up to make them believe you.

Clarice Manuel
Hi 18 K

Anonymous said...

@ cristal

I agree with your comment except for the saying you posted.

Even if you say that you know well of the opponent, there are still things which you might not know. You can only know much about them that you shouldn't be too assured of victory because in any fight, anything can still happen.

Besides, waiting to be sure will take time. Before you actually feel that it is time, the opponents might have renewed their strategies and now what? Study their new strategy and wait again to be sure?

Again, I agree with your opinion but I guess I'm not just really a fan of the being assured saying.

Tom Manahan
Hi 18-K

Anonymous said...

When you dangle a bait, you better make sure things won't turn against you. When a bigger fish takes your bait - and fights for it, you're left with nothing.

Blackmails don't always work to your advantage.

Baits aren't always negative, though. Look at the damsels in distress portrayed in fairy tales?

Santos
Hi18-K

Roshmia said...

Making others come to you shows that you know enough of your enemy to bait them. It basically means you've done your homework and went to battle knowledgeably. Well Done!
Making others come to you also shows dominance over the situation.
People are not going to think that you are being approached because you're friendly.
This shows that you not only have a pair of aces up your sleeve, rather, you have all four. [that quote idea came from Night Watch, the novel]
Whatever means you use, however, must be well hidden or manipulated for your advantage.
Only idiots would let the world see what illegal acts they've done to get what they want.

Roshmia Pundato
HI18-L

Anonymous said...

People have been saying that what is important is that you know your enemy lest your plan fails and you end up being the bait. I just commented on this other law that required you knew who you were dealing with which ties in with this observation. Actually, all the laws overlap and apply to each other. What i want to point out is how important a role information plays in the game of war. The other law i'm talking about is about knowing who your dealing with. It would seem that that law should first be observed before attempting this law, wouldn't you say?

Diego Juan Elpidio Canlas Ibanez
Hi18-K

Anonymous said...

I like the way Diego thinks. I'd like to quote Sun Tzu's Art of War:

Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the goodgeneral to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge.

Therefore it is imperative that one knows first the workings of the enemy before using this strategy in order for it to take its full effect.

Alan Ortiz
HI18 - K

danaceline said...

To Gliza Marasigan:

Blackmailing can be a way of getting people to be on your side, but i think it's quite dangerous. They follow you because they have no choice, but there is a possibility that they will get back at you. You may have blackmailed the person but the person can blackmail you back, making YOU the person forced to be the follower.

This is why i agree with what Chio Cebrero said. Even without forcing people to, you can make them follow you, as long as you convince them that following you will be beneficial for them. That tactic is a lot better (and safer) than blackmailing.

Dana Cammayo
Hi18-L

Unknown said...

Provoking something to happen can have its drawbacks. It could be too much to handle, so I guess this law says that being on a defensive is much easier than being on the offensive. In Civ, I always prefer to fight the war on the defending side since I have the support of the people and (if the enemy is separated by sea) I have much more time to organize my forces.

Denis Flores
Hi 18k

Anonymous said...

it seems to be a coward's tactic. pride is one thing that you may sacrifice here.. or not.

it's a thinking man's strategy. much like in chess you wouldn't always go straight for the kill, you should find the most efficient way to lure your opponent for the kill and ~tada~ checkmate.
that's if everything goes according to plan..

JR Resma
Hi18 K

Anonymous said...

If your morality is intact, then you know that the end never justifies the means. You will always be accountable for your actions. However, in the realm of battle, I'm pretty sure that most are more concerned with the outcomes other than if the means they used were just and were called for.

By making people come to you, you are given authority over them. They become dependent on you and are forced to follow you. This not only will improve your standing as a leader but will also increase your leverage on people.

In war, we have to own up to the fact that deceit is needed to be ahead of the game. I guess it's important to note who to reel in/ who will be of an asset.

Use the knowledge you have on people to garner an advantage in battle and to gain superiority over everyone.

Teri Marcelo
Hi 18-K

sambau said...

I think this law is about home court advantage. Making them come to you is a great tactic; it shows you control the tide of the battle. Momentum is on your favor. It shows a sign of desperation on their part, a need to fight.

It's kind of ironic that this law of power means that you already have some sort of power. The part about the end justifying the means? I think that's unimportant for these laws in general. They all have unfavorable means anyway. But I agree with what Dana said. Blackmail is never a good thing because it is never a secure thing.

Sam Bautista
Hi18-K

Sean said...

This sounds very familiar in the movie of the Patriot. In the last battle scene, the general decides to put their citizen army on the front lines to give the British a false sense of superiority. When they broke rank and the British pursued them, they sprung up a surprise conter attack that ultimately lead to their victory.

Sean Co
Hi 18 K

Anonymous said...

“What the fuck have you done lately?”

This law reminds me of the movie “Wanted” staring James McAvoy and Angelina Jolie where the mob called Fraternity recruited him using his father’s death as bait. It certainly worked. Why go through the course of action by spending time in the early stages of a plan? Make them go to you. Anticipate their arrival and start working from that. This makes you more power over the other.

Mara Liboro
Hi18-K

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